It is time for another magical episode about a film franchise, albeit not as long standing or even particular sturdy one. While we all want to talk about multiverses and strange doctor men, first I gotta get my notes out there to you on not only the latest Fantastic Beasts film, Secrets of Dumbledore, but also the middle less than stellar entry, The Crimes of Grindelwald, and of course the original. So let's take a trip all the way back to 2016 when we were just excited for Eddie Redmayne and a new Harry Potter/Wizarding World movie. These may not be perfect, but I have a soft spot for all three, especially when Jude Law is on screen or any of the three actors in their take on Grindelwald. And of course, Dan Fogler is a champ in these and brings so much fun to this period-piece historical fiction franchise that while I want five movies, will most likely be done at three, just hopes and dreams like the Ayer Cut, the Snyderverse, and the 6 hour Andy Muschietti cut of It! But let's take a look at all three of these, and see the good, and yes, the bad, of them. And of course let's chat on them all on social @NickNackMovies or @NickNack_IC on Twitter, Instagram, Tik Tok, and Letterboxd!
It is time for another magical episode about a film franchise, albeit not as long standing or even particular sturdy one. While we all want to talk about multiverses and strange doctor men, first I gotta get my notes out there to you on not only the latest Fantastic Beasts film, Secrets of Dumbledore, but also the middle less than stellar entry, The Crimes of Grindelwald, and of course the original. So let's take a trip all the way back to 2016 when we were just excited for Eddie Redmayne and a new Harry Potter/Wizarding World movie. These may not be perfect, but I have a soft spot for all three, especially when Jude Law is on screen or any of the three actors in their take on Grindelwald. And of course, Dan Fogler is a champ in these and brings so much fun to this period-piece historical fiction franchise that while I want five movies, will most likely be done at three, just hopes and dreams like the Ayer Cut, the Snyderverse, and the 6 hour Andy Muschietti cut of It! But let's take a look at all three of these, and see the good, and yes, the bad, of them. And of course let's chat on them all on social @NickNackMovies or @NickNack_IC on Twitter, Instagram, Tik Tok, and Letterboxd!
Nick Nack Goes to the Movies Pod S3E8
-Intro/Jingle
-Howdy hey and welcome to another episode of this fantastic movie and tv show podcast, Nick Nack Goes to the Movies. I am the aforementioned Nick, so, hey you! We have back to back magical properties to talk about in the next few episodes so while you Marvelous people will have to wait for another episode to hear my take on the latest feature film from Marvel, instead this week we will talk on the at this time 3 film arc, potentially 5, from the same wizarding world of harry potter. I am of course talking about Fantastic beasts and where to find them, the crimes of grindewalt, and the newest secrets of dumbledore. While the common consensus of these movies has not been the overall highest, I am pretty high on these for the most parts, so let’s talk about why these aren’t, for me, as bad as others may think. And yeah, it helps if you like the original books and movies, but these are not really the same thing.
- So normally I would jump into actor things but being a franchise I will just roll through them as they are introduced into each entry, so let’s jump back to 2016, which feels like a lifetime ago, when the first of these movies came out and expectations were pretty high overall.
-Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
-So having only really seen eddy Redmayne in Les Mis, I have to say he is absolutely one of my favorite parts of the movie and they cast a great lead for the franchise, even if his role feels diminishing as the series moved to focus more on Dumbledore and Grindewalt. But I really do like the quad four Katherine Waterson is great as Tina and does kind of take on that Hermionie role.
-Dan Fogler Jacob is hilarious and a great window to the magical world of wonderment for the Fantastic Beasts series as Harry was in the original franchise. He is us in these movies as we see all the wizarding fun! Also I totally somehow never connected he is Luke in the Walking Dead, one of the later adds in the series in the Magna group, so fun random bonus tv fact.
-I liked Alison Sudol as Quenie in the first movie, especially her paring with Jacob, but I never fully got her arc in the other two movies. As far as the other main characters, I really like Colin Farrell, sadly we never got to know his character because he was just Grindewalt, kind of in the same way that we only moderately got to know Mad-Eye Moody because the most screen time we got with him was, not actually him. I never thought Ezra Miller’s role really did a lot for the franchise overall but they did and had the most to do in this first movie as Creedence. Also, shout out to Ron Perlman in the first of these movies. His role was brief but some of those smaller roles made this movie world feel the most lived in.
-So you know I like my historical fiction pieces, and bringing this to old timey 1920’s New York was a fun time for me. The world of Harry Potter always felt a bit older world compared to the muggle areas of England we saw, especially in the later movies. But this blend where everything felt that way a bit, I liked it.
-And every time Newt is on camera I love him. His quirky personality and just passion for these magical creatures is always fun. That line of,” Are you a seeker on knowledge”, only to respond with. “I am more of a chaser actually”. Priceless Harry Potter ish.
-This movie probably does the most with these super fun creature designs from the franchise, the second film does okay too, but there is a bit of a drop off in the third one with the focus shift of the franchise.
-But the whole plot kicks off after setting up a small group of people who make it seem that witches and wizards exist, which I always think seems bigger of a concern than it really is in the movie, like Crazy Ralph in the Friday the 13th movies, he is right, but no one cares, at all.
-But the fun setup of a suitcase swap letting magical creatures roam around old timey New York which could be a real issue. It is like a fun magical Pokemon Go story. And Tina’s disdain to eventual chemistry build to Newt while hunting for these creatures to return to his zoo suitcase, this really is a charming A story. And every time you see either Newt or Jacob with magical creatures is just a fun watch.
-The other side of this story that eventually blends together with Graves looking for this obscurus, crazy magical creature child hybrid anger smoke monster thing. I really liked the idea of Graves character, and while they would never bring him back to show the real one I imagine, I would love to see him in an eventual later entry in these if that could ever happen. Once again, I assume this will end with a trilogy unfortunately, but at least it is a mostly wrapped up story. But I would have loved to see that final duel between the two master wizards and maybe some tie to Voldemort and Dumbledore after that fact and tying those two eras together. Maybe stating the narrative that Grindewalt made Voldemort a possibility and putting Dumbledore smack dab in the middle of these era’s
-All of the regathering of these creature scenes really are the best, but the drama of blaming Newt for the damage and murder of American muggles, no-maj is just not as good of a name. This scene of them being arrested and sentenced to death is full of so much drama and in hindsight, seeing the manipulation of Graves as Grindewalt is very fun to watch. Almost as good as the breakout scene with Newt using his creatures to get out and getting Queenie and Jacob more involved.
-And while Jacob’s role goes up in these, Queenie’s goes down, and her whole arc becoming messy as wanting forbidden love with a muggle, joining Grindewalt to make this happen, to that being impossible because he hates muggles, it makes here seem like a dumb character which I am not about.
-The hunt for the Obscurus child and it being Creedence is okay, especially with this notion that everyone wants it for their own, some to help, some to harness. And while the obscurus is seemingly destroyed, obviously not really, the battle with Graves taking out a ton of Aurors is my favorite kind of Harry Potter stuff, the reason I am so excited to play that new game on Switch hopefully.
-His whole speech of magic people first has the same undertones as what makes me like Magneto so much, but without the real-life backstory as to why he is this way, and by he I mean Grindewalt who Newt manages to capture with one of this fun creatures and not dueling skills, which is a very fitting endcap. Eventually everything gets magically, literally, wrapped up and the identity of the New York magical world is a secret again. I remember watching this and being bummed out that Jacob got his mind wiped. But thankfully the post story bit had him with his successful bakery, his main goal in the first one and all of his baked goods take inspiration from those same magical creatures and seeing Queenie and remembering her. Sadly this cute scene picks up with a sinister undertone in the second movie, that I would say feels like the weakest of the three.
-Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald
-So to the second film of the series. The new main adds are some bigger ones that actually do a lot for me. We briefly saw Johnny Depp revealed to be Grindewalt in the first movie but this was his first and last time in the spotlight in the franchise, we will get to his portrayal of the role, especially since it is different enough to the Mads Mikkelsen version of the first and it unfortunately is the whole 3 different actors in the role primarily with the first being played by Colin Farrel. I will talk about Jude Law more, but I will say this time and time again. I didn’t think of him initially in this role, but man does he do well as a young Dumbledore! Zoe Kravits has had a pretty strong few years with good performances in this movie as Leta LeStrange, in Spider-Man into the Spiderverse, and most recently, The Batman. But I think people sleep on her role in this movie, I like the flushed-out backstory she is given in the same movie she is introduced in and the ties with Newt from their Hogwarts days. She brings some great stuff to the movie and it is a shame she was gone so soon.
-The last bigger one is Newt’s Auror brother Thesseus Played by Callum Turner, newer to the acting world, who has a romance with Leta, ooh love drama! And their butting heads personalities is a fun build between the second and third movies here
-Also we have Victoria Yeates as like Newt’s assistant and I never really understood her brief role in this movie, they give her more in the sequel, but I just never got her character unfortunately.
-Lastly there are some adds overall in minor roles that never did a ton for me. Young McGonnagal ins played well by Fiona Glascott but we never really see her utilized a ton.
-I know he is in two movies, and while the beginning had some neat drama to start, I never seemed to truly understand or care for William Nadylam’s role as Yusef who is maybe a related to the LeStrange family and magic family murder and love stories from that past that just never really matter in this story of who Creedence is that just serves as a boring red-herring.
-Oh and remember when they just name dropped some other Harry potter characters in here with Nicholas flamel who does nothing other than exist and Nagini which was as fun idea of the Voldemort snake being a lady to start played by Claudia kim, who I have actually seen in a ton of stuff since here age of Ultron role. But for some strange reason, Nagini is just gone from the third of these movies after seemingly being a part of Dumbledore’s army in the end of this movie.
-So I have jumped around a bunch so let’s try to get back to some plot points. And yes, I have said some less than great things about this movie, but I do not think it is really all that bad. There are bad parts and I was disappointed in theaters, but it has grown on me a bit, so let’s get to that plot, especially the Grindewalt stuff and the odd direction the go with Queenie that takes a cute scene to end the first one and makes it kind of dark.
-So the Gellert Grindewalt breakout scene is very cool and fun, magic fighting, just cool visuals and things being a bit darker overall. Well done way to kick things off right where we left it all.
-In the same way this is a good start, I do like the kickoff of introducing thesseus and Leta, there is immediate blowback of the Grindewalt problem, international travel, and something with Creedence. And this leads to the kickoff of Dumbledore and being the guiding presence to the first movie. Honestly so far so good early on.
-Now, the Creedence hunt like the children’s book question, “are you my father”. Which is interesting but the super whatever maybe he is a lestrange feels more like fan service than anything that truly mattered. If he is a Dumbledore, maybe just lead with it or end with it, the build he was kind of blah.
-And while this part was not blah, it was a weird to turn to have Queenie, who seemingly there is this love connection with Jacob, one of the hearts of the franchise. And instead she traps him in a love spell because of the weird American love and muggle laws which seem to be just an American problem and maybe fine in other countries. Just move, that seems super easily possible with the power of magic. That never seemed like a huge problem, and yeah, the idea is Grindewalt corrupts her with his powers of persuasion to get her to his side, even if this really doesn’t matter or make all that much sense.
-Tina thankfully is still on the case too and this all leads to the latest batch of creatures being released into a new period piece magical version of a different country, this time France.
-While Creedence searching for his parent and the LeStrange and Yusef stuff is not the most interesting, the eventual answer for creedence is good, but yeah, there is some stuff that I don’t need all that much. And that water eye parasite scene was not for me, at all.
-The creature hunt is still just as fun as the first time. It has less of a clear direction, but Newt interacting with these creatures is and always will be the best part of these.
-The French ministry scene of figuring out lineage and the follow up story of this at the Lestrange family tomb is not important, sorry. I loved the build of Leta and her character arc of being an outcast and past trauma, the staple of this podcast, is bomb. But the other stuff gets bogged down a smidge.
-Before the big rally and battle scene, I do like Depp in the role as a galvanizing and a bit unhinged character who looks a bit disheveled. I do like the new look of Mikkelsen being charismatic and handsome looking, but Depp did well too, they both brought something fun and unique to the role, and having a magic only rally feels like great dystopian parallels we have seen in other mediums like V for Vendetta. The conflict is all part of Grindewalts plan with his followers and sending more to his side.
-It only marginally makes sense for Queenie and Creedence to join Grindewalt, especially queenie. And sadly another huge franchise death happens early with leta sacrificing herself with some interesting self-worth questions to ponder so others, and the Scamander brothers, can escape. The end did become a bit loony with a big magical made dragon battle happening with fire spells, just a bit too much and less personal than I would have wanted, I had this thought in the theater too.
-Both sides just end up at their home bases, Dumbledore now taking a more central role and not just chilling and teaching at Hogwards, he really is well cast, and Grindewalt saying that Creedence is a Dumbledore with a fun Phoenix thing.
-They don’t bring everyone back for the third movie for a few continuity questions, but not ever as bad as Resident Evil: The Final Chapter. Nothing could be as bad as that. But yeah, this movie ain’t bad, it just a’int so good either.
-Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore
-So now we get to the latest of these Fantastic Beasts movies. Like I said, I won’t really be talking on the real-world situation with Johnny Depp and Mads Mikkelsen taking over the role. I think both of them were good when we saw them for different reasons. But now that that is out of the way, yeah, the new adds or significantly bigger adds are Mads Mikkelsen for the lead villain role of Grindelwald and Jessica Williams as a fun quirky charm’s professor from the non-Hogwarts America school Lah-Lee Hicks. And I think both of them for sure add stuff to the movie, either a new menacing take on the villainous role, and these movies do have a fun sense of humor with some of the darker things going on around them, and Williams’ role does offer a bit of that same levity.
-The movie does pretty quickly put you into the relationship with Grindelwald and Dumbledore. And it is a fun one. While we still don’t fully have the answers of what exactly went down between the two, the chemistry build and some things answered between them was nice to see, I will say it again, I don’t know if I had someone in-place for a young Dumbledore cast, but Jude Law just works.
-I do like seeing Newt played to perfection by Eddie Redmayne as much as possible in these movies. Sure, he may never have that same thing that got us all to love the Harry Potter main cast. But personally, I love his character and do feel a connection and vested interest in him and the series. Yes, I know the reviews and ultimatum WB has on the 4th and 5th proposed in this franchise, but I would like to see it all through, and I can’t be the only one.
-But with the good comes the bad, and I feel like I never really got a ton of stuff out of Credence through any of the three movies, and obviously there is controversy with that actor as too, a lot of weird things seem to be going against this franchise. But the first movie that role was mild enough and had intrigue, and kind of the second one trying to find out who they were. But this third one was kind of just like, I’m evil or what not. The same thing happened with Queenie. I know redemption comes for both, but it just never fully tracked for me. So, seeing Creedence hunt down Newt who is trying to save fantastic beasts only to have Creedence kill a creatures mother, something you’d think would not track for the character.
-There aren’t as many fantastic beasts in these movies, but I feel like the wonderment is still in these movies, I am always in awe of them and I do like the direction for this wizard’s war that may lead to the eventual end conflict duel between the two famous wizards. I would love to see the dark days with Voldemort too. But I am getting ahead of myself. But the cute Chillin mini dear shiny majestic creature is so good in this. Thankfully the eventual plan of why Gellert wants one and why Newt having one other one is still so good. The future telling part never was so important for me, that part of the story kind of dragged a bit, but the eventual payoff at the end and that part of the government plot/coup I really liked. I like when these things have some form of government/politics in them. This movie and the Star Wars prequels, which while the laser swords are great in those, the government conspiracy is also very fun to watch. The Revenge of the Sith deleted scenes are sublime for that sadly underutilized angle for possibly my favorite of all 11 Star Wars movies, it is real tough with that and Rogue One and A New Hope. Happy belated May the 4th to you, you Star Wars fan!
-So the setup for this movies conflict and honestly whole plot at times is a bit cringe, I love seeing all the different magical areas of the world, the tour is kind of James Bond-esque, but the whole use the art of confusion thing for everyone to do random things to counteract seeing the future, Rick and Morty did an episode about heist movies with this same thing, and it is just too goofy at times, I would have stuck with the magical dear being pure of heart and trying to influence government things story and I think it would have been a stronger movie overall.
-I think the new character adds here are good enough, there is a fun rapport with the American charms teacher and one of the best parts of the entire franchise Jacob Kowalski. But this movie does some weird stuff with their more main cast or just returners to the franchise. For starters, Tina, regardless of her big new government job, is just not in this movie until the very end, that is awful. Honestly both of the sisters have weird roles, Queenie is like evil and moody, but not at all evil and it just never truly made sense why she was where she was, her character arc between movies 2 and 3 is just not good, but good and fun in the first one! And Leta’s half-brother from the second movie has nothing to do in the third one and his inclusion is down-right useless.
-So I got a lot of the bad out just then, the Germany stuff was cool, seeing political parts of who will rule the magical world, Grindewalt getting acquitted of all his crimes and being the voice of people, the whole V for Vendetta thing that works here for me. That and the prison scene has some scary creatures and also some super fun Newt and magical creature moments.
-Also, speaking of the magical creatures parts, Bunty is back and while I never really got a lot with her in the second movie as someone who has feelings for Newt when he is already balancing two other women, she does some good things here and has a role in the story. But at times it all feels a bit groany. Her just watching the creatures case and then in the end having the Chillin and them, sorry this is a fast forward, but one of the things I just never got in these movies as a just another less interesting Newt.
-This movie, like the first two, have so many good dark parts and of course just magical fun parts, going back to Hogwarts, every time Newt or Jacob does something, there is some real good here. And once again, Jude Law is very good as young Dumbledore, and he gets a good amount of time to shine in this third movie, his second outing as the character.
-Grindewalt seemingly has some really good plans of galvanizing people against the muggle population and his story is truly good here. Even if his acolytes are all uninteresting, even Creedence, who while the lineage of a Dumbledore was there, three movies in and the role really never seems to matter in the grand scheme of the story, which after the first movie just doesn’t make sense, even the second one built on the importance, and this movie makes the character seem insignificant overall.
-But the Creedence/Albus fight does look pretty cool at times, that trailer shot over the waters reflection of them is for sure cool and good.
-The magical fight scenes are for sure good here, I remember thinking the end climax fight in the second one just wasn’t as good and a bit over the top, but here all the small-scale wand fights with cool effects is the kind of thing that has me excited for the new Harry Potter video game that I hope is playable on the switch without the cloud stuff that they had to do for hitman and other things.
-The end vote scene with the fake dead chillin picking Grindewalt before the real one comes and picks someone else, I was all about the end drama here, and of course they found a way to break the magic that did not allow Grindewalt and Albus to fight, which now they surely will, if we get a sequel that is. But the end of this was good, fun, a little bit more from the Dumbledore family as a whole, and thankfully Queenie and Jacob get married finally and Tina and Newt have a small moment together too.
-Also one final thing about this movie. I was super curious as to who Richard Coyle, father black from the chilling adventures of sabrina, would be here. And he was aberforth, I don’t think I really picked up on him in this as I was super looking forward to him being some sort of villain/politicial like his role in Sabrina which he excelled at. So final random observation of this movie.
-So yeah, I would say this was a fun movie that had some tougher story-telling angles that if they were not utilized, this could have been better. I know chances are slim for finishing the franchise, but gosh I hope they do, I really hope they complete this story, nothing worse than an unfinished tale that gets wrapped up in a comic or novel, it never is the right way to wrap things up that have gone that way. But now that we have gone through all 3 films so far, let’s see which one is the most fantastic!
-Letterboxd ratings and rankings
-3. Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelward – 3 Stars
-2. Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore – 3.5 Stars
-1. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them – 4 Stars
-wrap and call to action
-So that is my first in a while multi film franchise episode, I hope you enjoyed it and thought it was, dare I say, magical? Eventually we will have to get into the other wizarding world slash harry potter movies, but before we do that we have another magical based movie for this podcast to do next episode with the latest from Marvel, so we can all look forward to that and see if the Dr. Strange sequel is supreme or just… strange. But what was your take on these Fantastic Beasts movies? Do you think they should end here and now or do you, like me, hope for the 5-film arc to be fully realized? Let me know on social to discuss at Nick Nack underscore IC and Nick Nack Movies on Twitter, Instagram, Tik Tok, and all social media platforms. Well that’s all from me so as always, cheers and until next time cinephiles!